# 对话诺兰！导演亲手翻开了《奥德赛》的另一面

- Channel: [Mediastorm影视飓风](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2cRwTuSWxxEtrRnT4lrlQA)
- Published: 2026-08-09
- Source video: [Watch on YouTube](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ebuh2D_DlX4)
- Read on ReadTube: https://www.read.tube/p/videos/Ebuh2D_DlX4
- Language: Simplified Chinese

## Summary

**诺兰谈《奥德赛》拍摄内幕**

诺兰这次主要讲的是《奥德赛》如何用工程化手段，把IMAX拍摄中最难的空中、水下和夜戏变成可执行的方案。空中镜头依赖多年积累的直升机云台经验，水下则靠巨大的防水壳和监视系统，而夜景几乎完全建立在一种新型的火光LED灯法上。影片整体的复杂感并不是失控，而是通过充分准备、团队协作和对自然环境的主动利用，制造出一种受控的混乱。

- 这次访谈的核心，是诺兰解释《奥德赛》如何在极端条件下把“看起来不可能”的镜头拍出来：空中镜头依靠IMAX直升机云台，关键在于把镜头在水平和垂直方向的抖动压住，并把机顶控制部件改成能装进直升机吊舱的平顶结构。水下镜头则使用巨大的钢制防水壳，出水时沉重、入水后因浮力反而好操作，配合防水监视器完成取景。

## Article

### 重新相见：手工打造的独眼巨人模型先登场

[music] 还记得我们上次在 2019 年那次见面吗？

>> Everyone, this was back in 2019.

>> Now, here we are again.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There we go. This time we have something special to show you. Last time we built a little miniature set for the Openheimr.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> But this time we have the Cyclops.

>> Oh, wow.

这一次，他们带来了一件特别的东西。上次为《奥本海默》做的是一个小型微缩景观，这次则是**独眼巨人**。

>> So, it's handcrafted by our prop [music] maker in our company. So, I guess we'll use this to lead a interview and ask questions.

>> Sure. film making.

>> Yeah. Can I pick it up?

>> Yeah, go for it.

这是他们公司道具师亲手制作的，所以打算就拿它来带入采访、顺便提问。

因为没有 3D 模型，只能根据 2D 图像去猜 3D 的形状，也不知道它在片场是不是完全这样，但整体已经做得相当不错。

>> Cuz we don't have the 3D model, so we have to, you know, use the 2D image to guess for the 3D. I don't know if it's actually like on set, but

>> that's pretty good.

>> All right. So, yeah, this time obviously a lot of challenge for you to make this film especially with the IMAX camera. So, my first question is about the aerial shots.

>> So, there are some telephoto aerial shots and imagine using such big camera. I don't know how you managed to stabilize the camera and grab all these amazing aerial shots.

### 直升机航拍：IMAX 摄影机如何稳定上天

>> Well, we've been using aerial mounts, helicopter mounts with IMAX cameras for a lot of years actually. Ultimately, what aerial stabilization is all about is just stopping the lens moving in the XY direction and then the movement of the helicopter is smoothed out to a to a degree. Um, so we have a lot of experience doing that. It's really having a mount big enough. The other thing we have to do is the camera has a set of controls on the top, the lid, you know, that that shuts. We have to remove that and put a flat lid on there so it fits into the uh housing for the the helicopter. But we've been doing that a lot. I mean, ever since the dark night, actually, different different camera mounts. So, we we know how to do that.

他说，他们其实很多年都在用 IMAX 摄影机做航拍吊装、直升机吊装了。所谓航拍稳定，关键就是让镜头不要在 X、Y 方向上乱动，然后再把直升机本身的运动尽量平滑掉一些。说到底，就是得有一个足够大的支架。

另外还有一个问题：摄影机顶部有一套控制装置，也就是那个盖子——你知道的，那个会关上的盖子——必须拆掉，再换成一个平的盖子，这样才能装进直升机的机舱结构里。不过这些他们都做很多次了，从《黑暗骑士》开始，其实就一直在用不同的摄影机吊装系统，所以他们知道怎么处理。

>> So, you're always on the helicopter, right? Always on helicopter. Yeah, it's very there's no drone big enough to fly an IMX camera yet. There is uh my brother has flown a 35 mil camera on a drone for his show Westworld but yeah for IMAX you need to be in a helicopter.

他也确认，拍 IMAX 航拍时基本总是在直升机上。因为到现在为止，还没有足够大的无人机能飞 IMAX 摄影机。虽然他的兄弟曾经为《西部世界》把 35 毫米摄影机装到无人机上飞过，但 IMAX 还是必须靠直升机。

### 水下拍摄：巨型“鱼雷”机壳与防水取景

>> And how about the underwater? So there are some like underwater and over the water show

>> in between I can't imagine a underwater housing being that big.

>> It's a very big it's we call it a torpedo. It's a it's a very big uh steel housing uh that out of the water is incredibly heavy. It has to be with a crane. But as soon as it gets into the water with the displacement and the buoyancy, it's it's actually pretty easy to use. [music] So Hoya himself, you know, myself will go under, you know, on on air and move this thing around.

水下部分也很有挑战。那种水下、贴着水面、以及水面上下之间的镜头，他说他们用的是一个非常大的机壳，内部昵称叫**“鱼雷”**。它是一个巨大的钢制防水外壳，在水面外时重得惊人，必须靠吊车搬运；但一旦进了水，因为排水量和浮力的作用，反而就变得相当容易使用了。他和霍亚本人会下到水里，移动这个东西。

>> How do you view the image if a hoist is on the camera and how do you see the image?

>> You you basically you have a a monitor. There's a separate sort of waterproof monitor that if you have a mask on, you can see and it's attached to the tube. So he's using that as a [music] viewfinder. you could see on the video monitor enough to see if you're framing correctly, but a lot of it is about where you're film how clean is the water, [music] you know, because of course with underwater photography, you know, as soon as there's anything in the water, it gets incredibly cloudy very quickly.

如果摄影机上装着吊挂装置，要怎么看片呢？他说基本上就是靠一个单独的防水监视器。只要戴着面罩，就能看见那个监视器，而且它还连在管子上，所以相当于取景器。通过视频监视器，你足以判断构图是否正确，但很多时候还得看你是在拍什么、以及水有多干净。因为水下摄影就是这样，只要水里有一点东西，很快就会变得非常浑浊。

>> Yeah.

>> But do you get seasick? Cuz I try to film under water when I look at monitor. [music] It's very easy to go seasick.

>> It depends on how much you're moving. I mean, [music] with with most of what we were doing under water, we weren't moving much. Uh when you're on a boat and you use the monitor that you can get very seasick free.

他被问到会不会晕船、晕水，因为盯着监视器拍水下内容很容易晕。他说这取决于你晃动得有多厉害。大部分水下拍摄时，他们其实没怎么移动；如果是在船上用监视器，就反而可以很大程度避免晕船。

>> Okay. So there was a time you'd be like one second guys. [laughter]

>> No no I I do pretty well. Uh we we had one very rough day on the boat where some of the actors not Matt was very good on boats but some of the actors started getting sick. [music] We had some unpleasant days out there but Poer luckily doesn't get seasick. I'm fine as long as I'm not looking too long at the monitor. You glance at the monitor and you have to look out at the horizon and then you feel okay.

他倒是说自己表现还不错。确实有过一天海况非常糟糕，在船上时，几位演员开始不舒服了，虽然马特在船上一直很好，但其他演员有些人开始晕。那天拍得并不愉快，但波尔幸运地不晕船。他自己只要别盯着监视器看太久就没事，扫一眼监视器，再看向地平线，就会恢复正常。

### 用 LED 做出“像火一样”的光：霍亚发明的火焰照明系统

>> And how did you um and Hoy light, you know, those kind of dark scenes because there are a lot of dark scenes in this film.

>> Yeah, they're all lit. I Well, what I challenge Hoya to do because Hoa, the thing about Hoa is he's uh you know, he's a great artist. You know, he had shown me on Oenheimer, we used LED technology to do things that we wouldn't have been able to do with older lighting. So for example, in the Trinity test [music] when you see the light of the explosion on Hammer's face and it changes colors continuously. So before the Odyssey, I came to Hoy and I said, I want to shoot everything as [music] if by fire light, which is not practical because of the heat put off by the flames and the exposure you need, but is there a way with LEDs, can you come up with some approach that no one's done before? And he took that challenge and he invented this extraordinary [music] form of lighting. He calls them pyrohedrin. It's basically a a pyramid with LEDs on it. You feed a video uh of fire, flickering fire, and it's sort of like a low resolution video monitor in a way with these LEDs that they can only display red orange. They can only display the color of fire. Exactly. You can't put any other >> fidelity of the fire. >> Exactly. And so the movement, the flicker, and you could change it. We had different video clips for different wind conditions and things like that. And they made hundreds of these things. For the sack of [music] Troy, for example, people running through the city of Troy at night. You know, these things are everywhere. We used hundreds of they're battery operated. One [music] person could just lift them up, put them down. You can move them around. He could control the flicker, the frequency, [music] things like that, the brightness. And that way we were able to really shoot every environment [music] as if it was really lit by fire.

关于那些很暗的场景，他说其实都照明了。他对霍亚提出了一个挑战，因为霍亚是很棒的艺术家，而且在《奥本海默》里已经向他展示过 LED 技术的可能性。比如在三位一体核试验那场戏里，你能看到爆炸的光照在汉默脸上，而且颜色持续变化，这就是 LED 技术做出来的。

在《奥德赛》之前，他对霍亚说，他想让一切都像是被火光照亮的一样拍摄。问题是，真正火焰的热量太大，而且需要的曝光条件也不现实；所以能不能借助 LED 想出一种前所未有的方法？霍亚接受了这个挑战，发明了一种极其特别的照明形式，叫做 **pyrohedrin**。

它本质上是一个带 LED 的金字塔。你往里面输入一段火焰的视频，或者说跳动火焰的视频，它就像一个低分辨率的视频显示器一样，但这些 LED 只能显示红色和橙色，也只能显示火焰的颜色，不能显示任何别的颜色。火焰的运动、闪烁都可以控制，而且还能调整。他们会根据不同风况使用不同的视频素材之类的东西。这样的装置做了几百个。

比如在特洛伊被洗劫那场戏里，夜晚有人在特洛伊城里奔跑，到处都能看到这些灯具。他们用了几百个，而且都是电池供电，一个人就能拿起来、放下去、移动它们。霍亚可以控制闪烁、频率、亮度等参数。这样一来，他们就真的能把每个环境都拍得像真的被火照亮一样。

>> Yeah. Because the fidelity is incredible because I I looked at the image I was like this can't be like a huge, you know, soft box or anything.

>> There's no moon box, there's no soft box, there's no Wendy light. It's it's a totally new approach where all the depth of the lighting is created by individual fire sources. And it really let me as a director get in and just shoot in all directions and just shoot as if we were out in a modern city [music] at night, for example. It's never been done before, which is an exciting thing to be involved with.

他说，这种真实感之所以惊人，是因为根本不可能是什么巨大的柔光箱。他强调：没有月光箱，没有柔光箱，没有 Wendy light；这是一种完全新的方法，所有光线层次的深度都是由单独的火光来源构成的。作为导演，他也因此可以自由地走进去，从各个方向拍摄，像在现代城市夜里拍戏一样。这样的做法以前从未有人做过，能参与其中本身就让人很兴奋。

### 独眼巨人模型可翻转：背后其实还有一整套布景和“小飞艇”

>> All right. Now, there's a little Easter egg. This thing actually can turn. So, if we turn around, you can see now this is a [music] set of the Cyclops. So, we watch behind the scenes. So, we try to mimic and this is a little blimp.

>> Wow.

>> We handcrafted. You can open the lid at the back and then you can see the actual I don't know if it's actually like that >> very much. Yeah, that's exactly how the lid. So, it lifts up and then the camera slides back, but uh that's very cool.

>> Yeah, we tried our our best to replicate it.

>> Yeah, that's excellent.

他们还做了一个小彩蛋：这个东西其实能转过去。转到背面后，就能看到独眼巨人的那组布景。他们是参考幕后资料来尽量复刻的，旁边还有一个亲手制作的小飞艇。你可以打开后面的盖子，就能看到真实的结构；他还说，这个结构和真实情况非常像，盖子会掀起来，然后摄影机会往后滑。

>> Yeah. How quiet is the camera with the blimp on?

>> With the blimp, it's effectively silent. I mean, you can hear a little gentle purring, but it's easy enough to filter out. There are a couple of shots in the film where we left the sound in because we actually kind of like the way it sounded. It's like a like a pirate cat. It's very gentle. Um, so it's it's pretty quiet. It's pretty quiet.

加上 blimp 以后，摄影机几乎是静音的。你当然还是能听到一点轻轻的呼噜声，但很容易就能在后期里过滤掉。片中有几个镜头他们甚至保留了这种声音，因为他们其实挺喜欢那种听起来像“海盗猫”的感觉，非常温和。所以整体来说，它真的很安静。

### 纯机械的视线控制：两面镜子解决演员对视问题

>> Yeah. And uh I heard in previous interviews you use the mirror system to guide the islands of the actor.

>> Yes.

>> But I didn't quite get like what exactly is going on with the mirror. Do you mind to

>> Yeah. I'm wondering I mean I can try and demonstrate with this although it's fairly small but when you have two actors speaking the camera interos when you come to do the closeup that the one actor can't see the other because of the size of the box it's really huge so you're really blocking the view so what I asked them to do if we could use two mirrors like a sideways periscope then the actor could stand instead of where they would really be which would be there they could stand further apart and look through one mirror bouncing onto a half silvered mirror on the front of the lens. And so that way that actor is seeing the reflection of this actor in front of the lens, very [music] close to the lens. So you can have a very tight ey line, a tight look

>> cuz it looks very natural in the dialogue. I never noticed anything.

>> No. Well, that's all of that is so that you don't notice it because the thing with ey line, they have to be quite close to the lens, but you want the person performing naturally with the other actor. You also want their eyes to be focused deep to where the actor would be. Um, we needed a mirror system so they can actually look through the reflection and actually see the eyes of the once you don't see the over the shoulder. Once you're in on somebody's face, then they're using that mirror system.

>> Purely analog.

>> Purely analog. Yeah.

>> Amazing.

他还解释了之前提到的镜子系统。大致上，当两位演员对话、拍特写时，因为摄影机箱体很大，演员其实看不到彼此；如果是正拍特写，挡板会把视线完全遮住。所以他们要求使用两面镜子，像一个横向潜望镜那样运作。演员站位不用是真正的位置，而是站得更开一点，然后通过一面镜子反射到镜头前方那块半透银镜上。这样，演员看到的是镜头前方那位演员的倒影，而且这个倒影非常靠近镜头，因此可以形成很紧的视线对接。

他说，这么做就是为了让你在对白中完全察觉不到这些操作。因为视线对接必须离镜头很近，但演员仍然要能自然地和另一个演员表演，还要让眼神看起来朝着真正应该对准的深处。因此他们需要一套镜子系统，让演员通过反射去看到对方的眼睛。只要不是过肩镜头，一旦进入某个人脸部的特写，就会用这个镜子系统。

整个系统完全是模拟的、纯机械的。

>> Purely analog.

>> Purely analog. Yeah.

### 监视器、脚本监督与连续性：一切都被严密控制

>> And there's one thing I see behind the scene. You have like a little thing with antenna. It's like television or something on you. What is this machine? That's just a little video monitor that I use cuz I like to look at the actors to to eye and not be in a video village, you know, with a big monitor in a tent or something. I want to be right there talking to the actors, looking at the actors, but then I can just look at this thing and check the framing of the camera and [music] see, you know, how it's framed.

他被问到身上那个带天线的小机器是什么，那其实只是一个小视频监视器。他用这个，是因为他喜欢直接和演员面对面交流，而不是待在“视频村”那种帐篷里的大监视器前。他想站在现场，直接和演员说话、看着演员，同时再低头看这个小设备，检查摄影机的构图和画面怎样。

>> But how do you control the continuity? Because the monitor is quite small. Yes.

>> And uh the continuity is so important for this film. There's so much people. Is there certain people? Yes, there we have a script supervisor is the the title. There are bigger monitors further away. So, we could use those. But what I prefer him to do is to use his eyes actually see because sometimes if you're just looking at the monitor, you don't see what hand somebody does something with. You know, if it's out of frame whereas if the script supervisor is looking, you know, from the side or something, they can see [music] the content. They can see what people are doing. So that when you move the camera, it's done in the same way.

不过连续性怎么办？毕竟这个监视器太小了，而且这部片的人物又特别多。他说当然有专门的**脚本监督**。现场还有更大的远处监视器可以看，但他更希望脚本监督多用眼睛去看，因为如果只盯着屏幕，有时候你会看不到某只手在画面外做了什么；而脚本监督从侧面观察，就能看到内容、看到大家在做什么。这样当摄影机切换角度时，动作就能保持一致。

>> Okay. So, it's very tightly controlled for continuity. the armor everything.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Very tightly controlled.

所以，无论是连续性、盔甲，还是其他所有细节，都是非常严密地控制着的。

### 规模越大，准备越多：在坏天气里拍出海神的愤怒

>> Next question. Next one is regarding entropy. So I this film has a lot of entropy in a good way.

>> You know you have the cave scene which is really challenging for IMAX camera. Then you go to the water arrow shots a lot of these. How do you control everything you know to to be?

>> Yeah. I mean that's an interesting way of asking the question. I think that that with large scale film making a lot of the most complicated sequences have the most planning. [music] So we're very prepared by the time we we come. And the really complicated equation is we wanted bad [music] weather. Usually when people film they want good weather so it's easier but we wanted bad weather because we're trying to show the wroth of Poseidon. We're trying to show the difficulty the challenge posed by the ocean by storms and [music] such. So we wanted to be in the worst weather that was safe for us to bring a [music] crew out. And that's a a tricky thing to sort of hit that spot in terms of the time of year you shoot in terms of, [music] you know, you have to wait on the dock and sometimes you can't go out because it's too rough. You wait and you wait and then they go, "Okay, now you get in and you go out there or whatever and you film as long as you can and then [music] you have to stop. You then go back in." There's a level of controlled chaos which is film making [music] where you interact with the natural world. the element of serendipity, the element of the natural world, the unpredictable things coming together in a way that gives you something [music] that's more than the sum of its parts, something that has a complexity of the natural world.

关于“熵”这个词，他说这其实是个很有意思的问法。这部片里确实有很多“熵”，而且是好的那种：比如洞穴戏，对 IMAX 摄影机来说就很难拍；还有水上、箭、海面这些镜头也很多。那怎么把这一切都控制住呢？

他的回答是，大规模电影制作里，最复杂的段落往往也是准备最充分的段落。等他们真正到现场时，其实已经准备得很充分了。真正复杂的是，他们想要**坏天气**。通常拍电影都希望天气好一点，这样更容易拍，但他们偏偏想要坏天气，因为他们要表现波塞冬的愤怒，要表现海洋、风暴带来的困难和挑战。

所以他们要尽可能在对剧组来说还算安全的最糟糕天气里拍摄。这就很难把握：要看一年中的时间，要在码头上等待，有时候因为海太大根本不能出海。你只能等、一直等，直到有人说“好，现在上船，出去拍”，然后能拍多久拍多久，之后必须停下，再返回。

他说，电影制作有一种**受控的混乱**：你和自然世界互动，偶然性、自然界的因素、不可预测的事情会一起汇合，最终得到的东西会超过各部分之和，会变成一种拥有自然世界复杂性的成果。

### 声音设计与拟音：让观众真正“摸到”材料

>> Amazing.

>> And another question is on the Foley. I really enjoy the Foley for this this film and uh especially for the BR that as a motif I think is incredible is it has me goosebump. So how much effort was put into Foley? [music] I think it's underappreciated

>> by a huge amount of effort particular with the bow the tension as as the bow is strong and then at points and [music] the pluck of the bow in particular is actually a foley sound effect and it's also a musical note from Luke [music] Garson combined with the the foley you know Craig and his team they did a lot of passes more than than usual because I felt that it was very important that people [music] really hear the armor the things things are made of you know when when guys are climbing up the path towards the Cyclops cave or whatever. We had to redo that [music] two, three, four times and really try to come up with new materiality, a new feeling and that's what folio can give you. [music] So with the lragonians, for example, these giants and these silver outfits, they have a completely different approach to the foley of that armor as for the armor of the Greeks. And so you start to [music] be able to create a sonic identity for the the different types of of, you know, person or creature, whatever environment. [music] It's a really powerful tool in terms of allowing you to feel uh the materiality of the the world.

他也谈到拟音，尤其是这部片的拟音他非常喜欢，像那个作为主题动机的弓弦/弓的声音，简直让人起鸡皮疙瘩。他认为拟音被严重低估了。

在弓的部分，他们花了极大精力：弓弦绷紧时的张力，以及某些点上的拨弦，尤其是那个拨弦声音，其实既是拟音效果，也是卢克·加尔森提供的一个音乐音符，再和拟音结合起来的。克雷格和他的团队做了比平常更多的多轮录制，因为他觉得让观众真正“听见”盔甲、听见这些东西是由什么材料构成的非常重要。

比如当人们爬向独眼巨人洞穴的小路时，那段声音他们重做了两三四次，努力找出新的“材质感”、新的感觉，而这正是拟音能提供的东西。再比如拉科尼亚人，那些巨人、那些银色服装，他们的盔甲拟音处理方式和希腊人的盔甲完全不同。于是你就开始能为不同类型的人、不同生物、不同环境，建立起一种声音身份。

这是一种非常强大的工具，它能让你真正感受到这个世界的材质。

### 信任合适的人：靠周会把所有部门对齐

>> Yeah. Because the ocean or the foley it really helps to to bring people into the mood.

>> And uh probably last question I have is obviously you have so much knowledge about film making yet every time you took on the challenge but knowledge is eventually has a border. So if you want to build a huge sets, maybe you're not so professional for the construction itself

>> uh or maybe something that you don't know. So how do you make sure you are trusting the right people

>> to deliver the right thing at the right time? What if something goes sideways when you reach the set? It's not exactly as you wanted.

>> Well, I mean a lot of that is preparation. A lot of that is working with people you work with before. One of the things we do in preparation that's very useful is we do a production meeting every week because film making where it goes wrong it's generally that one department didn't know what another department was doing and so the expectations aren't met so they're not on the same page. So every week in the weeks of of pre-production we talk about every issue talk about how we're going to do things how we're going to bring things to the table. There's a lot more predictability in terms of how people arrive at things and what the expectations are. Okay, I guess that's all my questions like.

>> Well, thank you.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Thank you.

>> This is very cool.

>> Thank sometimes for this

最后一个问题，是关于信任合适的人。毕竟你对电影制作懂得很多，但知识终究有边界。如果你要搭建巨大布景，也许你并不是最懂施工的那个人，或者会遇到一些你不熟悉的环节。那你怎么确保自己信任的是对的人，能在正确的时间交付正确的东西？如果到了片场，结果和你想的不一样，又该怎么办？

他的回答是：很多事情都靠准备，也靠和你以前合作过的人一起工作。拍摄前的准备里，有一件非常有用的事，就是**每周开一次制作会议**。因为电影拍摄之所以出问题，通常是某个部门不知道另一个部门在做什么，结果预期没有对齐，大家不在同一页上。

所以在前期制作的每一周，他们都会讨论所有问题，讨论准备怎么做，怎么把东西拿到台面上。这样一来，大家到场时的行为方式、预期和实际执行就会更可预测。

最后，采访也告一段落了。双方互相道谢，整个交流被认为非常酷，也带着一点临别时的感谢。

>> Okay, I guess that's all my questions like.

>> Well, thank you.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Thank you.

>> This is very cool.

>> Thank sometimes for this